So today walking through Walmart I (finally) found Playpit balls (with no playpit) for sale. Got them and am about to make my very first Russian Balls.
What should I seal them with? I got a hot glue gun and salt too. I feel like I've watched every tutorial online but I still trust the Edge as the leading authority.
Anyone juggle Russians? What should I seal and fill them with? They've always seemed so bizarre to me, being only partially filled. I've honestly never even felt one.
My friend seals his with hotglue. he uses a razor to shave down the hot glue residue. *THEN*, he puts another playpit ball over this, sealing it first with hotglue and then electrical tape around the ball. The "double-shelled" Russians are much more sturdy and still have great stall qualities.
So before I saw this, I actually made them (I couldn't wait). I have no idea how one would put a playpit ball over another seamlessly - that seems like a very difficult task!
Anyway, I made 3 and I sealed them with hot glue. Filled them with salt to 110 grams each (My pinkies are 91 grams and my lacrosse balls are 144. Happy medium.)
I've been drinking so my full test results can't be in yet, but wow. I've never juggled anything like this before. I feel like I miss a little accuracy with my release but the catch is amazing - almost gravity-defying. Literally. I even tried with another ball to catch 4 in one hand in the pyramid grip... The russian ball on top just lands and perches there, effortlessly - even BETTER than beanbags.
Crazy stuff. I will definitely experiment more with these.
You are correct,the second ball isn't a completely seamless fit over the first. It's pretty close though, and the electrical tape covers the gap. These double-shelled balls have been much more durable, we've found.
I'll try that this summer when I'm back home. (studying in Spain for 6 months)
But do those double-shelled russians travel with you?
Do they get flattened in bagpacks and stuff like that?
I can imagine them being more durable for juggling but I think they'll lose the recovery a single walled russian has.
I've had a set that lasted almost 2 years.
My current set is over a year old and would still be complete if not for that damn dog last week.*
* no 7 ball juggling until someone brings me new balls :(
I've never traveled with them on an airline. Like regular Russians, I keep them separate to prevent them getting crushed. I try not to put anything on top of them, just like single-shelled Russians. They get pressed up against my clubs in my prop bag, but so far, no damage. You can feel the "give" of the balls, certainly.
Okay, over a talk with my friend (GravityKiller5000 on YouTube), I got the full details. It actually takes 2.5 balls to make one of these double shelled balls. He cuts one ball slightly over half way, and then cuts another right at halfway. That way, there is some overlap that you tape over (you can save the other "half" ball for the next double-shell you're making).
I traded for a set of 7 about a month ago. His 7 ball set he's had for, I think, almost 4 years. Mine are 98 grams, and yesterday I flashed 7 for the first time in over 15 years. Of course, credit goes to these balls :P
What is the single, most incredible feat of juggling you have ever witnessed? In person, or in video?
I really don't know what to say here, there is so much... So I'll hold my opinion until other people chime in.
I've got a fairly strong feeling that we had a thread with almost exactly that title before. But I just tried a few searches and couldn't find it. Maybe my memory's stretching back to RJ days.
Anyone else remember this?
Brook Roberts - - Vorredner #
I remember a thread about this on RJ a long time ago and think I remember my answer too! (I anwered seeing dietz multiplex from 6 ball fountain to 6 hall hi-mid-low shower, but it was a long time ago and I couldn't find the thread again).
First thing that comes to mind is I believe from "28 years of Thomas Dietz".
Where the girl drops a club and Thomas catches it to go from 6 to 7 clubs (or from 5 to 6?)
http://ezine.juggle.org/2013/12/08/the-greatest-juggling-tricks-of-all-time-part-1/
http://ezine.juggle.org/2013/12/20/the-greatest-juggling-tricks-of-all-time-part-2/
http://ezine.juggle.org/2013/12/31/the-greatest-juggling-tricks-of-all-time-part-3/
David Cain
mike.armstrong - - Vorredner #
The steal and return from a five club cascade in Get the Shoes' Matrix/kung fu routine
GTs did pop into my mind too.
http://juggling.tv/2514 ...for the uninitiated.
That whole (dropless!) routine is something I would really love to have seen live.
Is that signature trick topped (in the gym) by this variant, which left me open-mouthed? https://vimeo.com/85896096#t=4m49s , Not a blind, backwards pass, but huge skill and coordination still involved. Bonus points for being a winning entry in Emily's competition too.
D'oh! Somehow managed to write that it wasn't a blind, backwards pass, when in fact it was too, just not an underhand one...
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I'll chuck Bobby Mays match/cigarette trick in there, as it looks like nothing but is bastard hard.
Bobby May's trick is indeed amazing. I have tried many, MANY times to catch a cigarette in my mouth from a backcross and only get it very rarely.
I also heard that Enrico Rastelli could juggle 3 matches using only hand and wrist movement. Catching them with his thumb and index.
Anyway... A few on my list:
-7 Club 7-Up 360 (Gatto and Vova)
-11 Rings with a Headbounce (Gatto)
-11 Ball Qualify (Alex Barron)
-Gatto just Running 10 rings comfortably
-Anyone headbouncing 2 balls (actually have only seen 2 or 3 people do it - is it more common than this?)
-Toby doing 5 club Mills (better than anyone else, and comfortably)
I've also heard of someone (don't know who) doing a behind the back blind mill's mess. Is there any video of this?
I approve of your list. The 2 ball head bounce is not common at all these days. I can only think of Gatto running it for a reasonable length of time. I know that Lewis Kennedy can run it a bit. I got up to 13 bounces when I used to work on it, but that was exceptional. Best footage of a 2 ball head bounce has to be Evgeni Biljauer. I did see an old video of someone doing 3, but obviously not for long.
On the renegade stage at EJC in Svendborg, Denmark, Thomas Dietz did a routine. At the end (maybe after a very short break) he picked up 5 balls and juggled them on stage for 1 hour with clean finish. It wasn't that interesting to watch on it's own but after a while he moved to the back of the stage and continued whilst other acts came on and performed. At one point the lights briefly went out for one of the other acts and he kept the pattern going.
I'm not sure if his target was an hour but someone shouted that was the current record so he stopped then. We later found out the record had just recently been beaten so he didn't get it but so what, we knew we'd seen something amazing.
Cedric Lackpot - - Vorredner #
IIRC Tommi holds the 5b endurance record with a time of around 3hr 45min!
Over the past few days I have been reviewing the latest updates on securely hashing user passwords. Today I have upgraded the version of php used to power the Edge, & pushed live a change to the login system that uses new functions introduced in php 5.5 which will make future upgrades considerably easier in years to come as cryptography moves on.
To force through the change I will be logging everyone out tomorrow morning at 07:00 (if I've worked out the timezones correctly), you will be able to log straight back in again. Your password will be verified against the old system, rehashed using the new system then subsequent logins will be verified against the new system.
Please rest assured there is nothing to worry about. We haven't been hacked. This is just a routine upgrade that I've been planning for ages. I still actively monitor the server access logs daily & I investigate all suspicious activity. Most of the time it turns out to be Brook.
I'm doing my bit to keep your details safe, this does not mean you don't have to do yours.
DO use a strong password. No matter how secure my website is an easily guessable password is no security at all. An attacker is limited to 10 attempts before your password is automatically reset to prevent brute force attempts. However, today I managed to do 4 of you in less than this. A long password of just letters is often better than a short one of letters/numbers/punctuation.
DON'T use the same password on different websites.
#NewFeature
Whilst all this security on the back end is very good and the admonition about front end security is true there are some very good reasons for not having secure passwords on every account. Firstly whilst many jugglers are computer nerds not all of them are and therefore many will not use a password manager or even care about accounts where money is not involved. Whilst it would be annoying if someone worked out my password for a number of sites and blocked me from them/pretended to be me, there would be very little they could actually do to me. As long as I am not stupid and use really easily guessable passwords (e.g. password, 12345, asdf, qwerty etc.) then no-one is likely to guess my password in the designated number of attempts. An article I read recently suggested that a 5 character password was actually as secure as a password which needed 10^14 guesses as long as the back end was properly hashing the passwords.
Or in short, if you Orinocco are doing a decent job (which you are) and users aren't incredibly stupid (which apparently some may be) then a long password isn't that useful for this site. The following link leads to a zip file with the top 10000 worst passwords https://xato.net/passwords/more-top-worst-passwords/#.VKMpXYF_vTo
Nigel
Most websites require at least 6 characters, I can't remember the last place I was able to use one less than that. I'm not sure where they got that list from, but quite of a lot of the popular passwords I know people use are not on it. Personally I tend to subscribe to the xkcd method of choosing passwords, being that they're more secure and easier to remember than something stupid with at least 1 letter, number, random character that doesn't exist on an english keyboard! https://xkcd.com/936/. Regardless, most sites I sign-up to I use false information and occasionally a onetime use email address.
I did have issues logging into the site. It required me clearing out my cookies for the site.
Indeed, 6 is (begrudgingly) the limit here. Interestingly none of the passwords I guessed were on the list of 10,000.
The worst that anyone could get from cracking the password on this site is your email address, so Nigel is right in that if you are going to concentrate your efforts on a secure password then the Edge is a very low priority site. But it's always a good idea to practice good habits!
Apologies for the difficulties in logging in (to you too Nigel). It looks like the upgrade is working smoothly for most people but if anyone else is having any trouble please let me know (doesn't require log in) & I'll jump on it.
I actually couldn't login at all yesterday, even by using different browsers, cookie clear, password reset, etc. Kept getting stuck on /auth with a blank screen.
That was fixed yesterday.
Hopefully this year I'm going to learn the skill of only making one change at a time.
It's a good skill to have, sure makes finding problems much easier. Took me a while to make it a habit, but I'm glad I did.
Although I do occasionally slip-up when I think a change is just cosmetic or trivial.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
Moving from SVN to git for my source control made that habit so much easier to get into - branching and merging is just so easy in git that feature branching is almost fun!
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
"The worst that anyone could get from cracking the password on this site is your email address"
These days, I tend to recommend that whatever you do for the majority of sites, re-use passwords on low value sites if you like - but *never* use the same password as you do for the email account you've given them. Treat your email password with the same security you would treat online banking or your paypal account.
On their own, email addresses aren't worth very much on the black market (spam just isn't anywhere near as profitable as it used to be) However, if you've got a password to go with the email account, then that's got a much higher resale value - as there is generally a whole heap of useful information to be mined out of an email account if you want to steal someones identity - or if you want to maliciously use the account to sign up for other services, deleting the evidence as you go.
I for one am glad to see Orin taking proactive steps on the back end for password management, as a hack followed by the cracking of some really very poorly encrypted passwords (and the attacker posting to rec.juggling impersonating Colin E to emphasise the point) was one of the incidents which forced the end of the IJDb.
Password security has never been glamorous, so never got revisited over the 10 years the ijdb was alive - password cracking moved on, the back-end didn't, and the IJDb suffered for it.
Also, I'll add another +1 to the xkcd method for picking memorable passwords which are hard to "crack" (online or offline)
Although I don't think if the question was ever resolved, I was under the impression that the post you are referring to was an April Fools' Day prank (https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.juggling/g8OHsBoFd4o/discussion). Or was it just very coincidental timing?
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I think it's long enough ago that I can say that based on emails which were flying around behind the scenes (which EmmetLouis and Marlon weren't party to), it was really quite a long way from a joke [1]
The timing of that post was probably not entirely coincidence, and I suspect the person who posted it picked that date for a reason, but to the best of my knowledge it wasn't Colin.
[1] or at least, if it was, it was incredibly elaborate and Colin went to extraordinary lengths to populate the server logs with supporting evidence as well as being a far better actor than I thought he was!
No, it was not an April Fools prank by myself.
The IJDb's approach to password management and security hadn't been updated in a number of years. I was able to replicate the SQL injection attacks alluded to in this message (posted under my name) and understood enough to determine that the IJDb was really putting people's security at risk.
I, and many others, know a lot more now than I did ten years ago, and could have probably come up with a sticky-plaster solution. But the real issue was that my great wasn't in the IJDb any more. Websites need constant love and attention.
I learn so much through running the IJDb, but the hardest lesson I learnt was that killing it was the right thing to do. You have to sacrifice a lot of pride and ego in order to do that.
That's quite enough reflection for now ...
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
-Offtopic:
Heh, for some reason I always assumed that you were the same person as Marlon (as his last name is similar to your nickname), but seeing the convention data you entered I see that assumption was not correct... Now searching I see that Marlon also signed up here, under that name...
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
I had Marlon and Marvin a bit confused for a while for some reason. I thought poor old Marlon had sunk into a depression.
Well .. sort of.
I've juggled only 337 minutes in the last 50 days. That counts as depression right?
I'm surprised about how many people confuse me with someone else.
But even more surprised that people even think about me.
Except moderating Juggling Home on facebook I don't really do that much, do I?
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
You used to come at conventions, you used to say something at the edge from time to time... And you juggle more than 5 minutes a day! Reason enough to be famous :)
I did not even know you moderated juggling home
If that is enough for fame then I'm going for superstar status once I get back on track with my training schedule.
Juggling Home has 6 moderators. Peter Bone, Lucas, Norbi, Maarten Wils and Vincent Mangaud are the other 5.
And yes, Like Cher and Prince before them Lucas and Norbi have reached that level of fame they only need 1 name.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I was wondering who was Lucas, so I looked it up: With his last name I know him. First name only works only for Norbi :p (And for Marlon!)
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Had we met before?
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
We used to discuss juggling related stuff on rec.j until the closure of the IJDB when you took on the Green Eggs job here at The Edge. After some time it finally dawned on me that Marvin was in fact not you at all but instead a failed robot prototype of Sirius Cybernetics afflicted with severe depression and boredom.
Were you ever called Marvin on rec.juggling and then changed your name to Marlon? Or is it just simply the 'Mar' part of your name that confused me?
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
"But even more surprised that people even think about me".
See that sounds like something Marvin would say.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Why is everyone convinced that Marvin is depressed? He (it) just states dry facts, right?
It's just the Mar part of the names.
I did use a different username on rec. for a while before I changed it to Marlon but even I no longer remember what that was.
Definitely agree about email security, especially with the number of services where you reset your password and get an email with your new password/a link. Just by having access to an email account you can typically get into a *lot* of other accounts.
I think in general it's a very good idea to update password hashes even if they aren't cracked as if you're on one of the more current hashes it's far less likely to be broken in the near future - and stops the whole "wait until the hash is broken and then update after everyone's details have been vulnerable for (at least) a few days"
having a good password on your email account is not always sufficient!
https://www.wired.com/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking/all/
wow, that's quite scary - I'll need to go through my accounts this week and double check that nothing like that would work for me... Thanks for sharing!
Mike Moore - - Vorredner #
"However, today I managed to do 4 of you in less than this"
Well now I want to try...
Great to hear you are on top of things :-)
Just wondering if you had thought about using OpenID? I quite like the model where you delegate to a third party for authentication. This gives the user a feeling of greater security, in that they hope their credentials are better protected by a company such as Google. It also reduces the urge to re-use passwords.
- Colin E.
I did think about it, but when I tried it I hated how convoluted it was. You first have to select an OpenID provider, enter your details, be taken to a confirmation screen then come back to the main site. People simply don't want to go through that many steps (looking at how many people use the keep me logged in option most people don't even want to do one stage logging in). It was used on jugglehub before that went down, I'd be interested to know how many people elected to use the OpenID route over creating a new account.
I may be misremembering this but I think Facebook also gives users notifications on the confirmation screen so they'd get distracted & go to Facebook rather than the original site.
I'd disagree about reusing of passwords, if you are using one account to log in everywhere it is *forcing* reuse!
Regarding OpenID, I use my Google account to authentication with StackOverflow (https://stackoverflow.com), and yes the initial sign-in is a bit messy as you described, by a 'remember me' function is possible. Also subsequent logins do not require the step when you grant StackOverflow access to your Google account.
Anyhow, it was just a thought. I am genuinely very happy to see JugglingEdge growing stronger :-)
Daniel Simu - #
Circus grip origin
Today I had a discussion about different club grips, and the question came to mind: Where does the term Circus grip come from? All over the western world people seem to agree on the name circus grip, so there must be some kind of singular source, right?
I only came across the name circus grip after reading the Compendium of Club Juggling. Prior to that the two grips were generally referred to at TWJC as 'right' & 'wrong', but there was no clear consensus on which was which.
Circus grip is supposed to be better for multiplex throws. Some people find the clubs snag against each other if they use it to start juggling. I prefer normal grip.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
So I guess I should try to contact Charlie Dancey about his source?
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I think Charlie would be a good person to start with, although the term certainly pre-dates the compendium.
I'm fairly sure the two grips are described as "circus" and "european" in The Complete Juggler (Dave Finnegan) but for some reason I've been unable to find my copy. Dave was fairly responsive by email last time I trued to get hold of him, and is a very helpful chap with lots of knowledge and stories. Give him a go!
Mike Armstrong and David Caine both have quite extensive collections of juggling instruction books, so may be able to help further?
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I just looked it up:
Both the Complete Juggler and Start to Star show Euro grip on their pictures, but don't give a name to it and also don't mention circus grip...
mike.armstrong - - Vorredner #
I went through all of the books [1] in my collection that I thought would be relevant last night. Some just assume that you'll work it out, many show one grip or the other and a few show both and say "try them both and choose your favourite". One shows some completely weird aberration with them side by side.
None of them give names to the grips.
Somehow I don't own Dancey's Compendium of Club Juggling - can someone who does confirm that they're definitely in there?
Cheers
-Mike
[1] They were:
Anglo, Edited by Middleton, James F; The Art of Modern Juggling (1908)
Burgess, Hovey; Circus Techniques (1976)
Dawson, Robert; Take 3 Clubs (1995)
Dittrich, Rudolf; Juggling (1961)
Finnigan, Dave; The Complete Juggler (1987)
Franco, Dick; Three Club Juggling (1985)
Holden, Max; Manual of Juggling (1946)
Holland, Charlie; Juggling (1994)
Ingalese, Rupert; Juggling or How to Become a Juggler (1921)
Mills, John J; How to do Juggling (1946)
Summers, Kit; Juggling with Finesse (1987)
Wiley, Jack; Basic Circus Skills (1974)
Definitely there in the compendium, under the entries for "Circus grip" and "Normal Grip".
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Thanks for looking up! Cool that other people are curious about this too :).
So I guess it is back to asking Charlie Dancey? Too bad that I have no clue how to reach him...
Danny Colyer - - Vorredner #
> So I guess it is back to asking Charlie Dancey? Too bad that I have no clue how to reach him...
You could try tweeting him @charliedancey. He hasn't been active for a few months, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be contacted that way.
Mike Moore - - Vorredner #
He also appears on the juggling subreddit sometimes. You can send him a message, it looks like he's on reddit quite frequently.
https://www.reddit.com/r/juggling (to make a general post)
Or, his user page: https://www.reddit.com/user/charliedancey (to send a message to him directly)
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Thanks! I already tweeted with no luck, but I'll give Reddit a go!
I don't know the answer to your question, but the other grip is called "European grip". Which could perhaps suggest that Circus Grip is an American term, but that's only speculation. I would investigate all the club juggling books you can find, and see which is the oldest to feature the term Circus Grip. That might give an idea of when it was popularised.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I sold all of my interesting juggling books to you :p
There also is less consensus about 'euro grip', more often this is known as 'regular grip'. Why would circus grip have stuck and euro grip not?
I'll see if I can find some instructional books :)
I think the term 'normal grip' for the opposite of a circus grip is more popular.
I find it as normal as deepfried hedgehog.
That sounds delicious!
Also good for constipation according to medieval sources
https://www.medievalcookery.com/oddities
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I got a reply from Charlie, and he claims the term comes out of his own juggling community, possibly even himself! His book is then definitely what popularized it...
I am quite surprised by the influence of a single book on such a detaillistic but widely understood term!!
Charlie's message:
Hi,
At the time I was learning to juggle at the old Walcot Village Hall workshop in Bath UK, back around 1980, we were told by most of our peers that the "normal" grip was right, but we also noticed that traditional circus jugglers, and our Russian friends from the Moscow State Circus, tended to use the reverse. We also found that the reverse grip was often better for multiplexing etc. So instead of calling it "wrong" or "reverse" we called it the "Circus Grip". I'm not sure who coined the term, it could have been me, one of the "gang" or we might have picked it up from somewhere. It was a very creative time, and the precise details of who named which what, are not always easy to remember.
I'm pretty sure I was the first to use it in print though, since none of my research turned the phrase up from previous works. It's important to have decent names for things in a book, and that's why I used it.
So: probably me, but possibly not, and that's the best answer I can give.
It's cool that people are interested in such stuff, best to all of you!
Charlie Dancey
Where on this site are we supposed to ridicule people commenting on really old r.j threads? Sure he responded to a new comment on an old thread, but LP still seemed oblivious to me.
-Scott
I think there is a special topic for that.
try searching for "[Selling] Rare Wine Red Mugen Kendama For Sale"
Oh, wow, RJ.... I'd almost forgotten all about it. So I went to look, via jugglehub... Which is broken. So I looked via JJunction, which has formatting issues on iPad. So I looked via Google Groups.... I don't quite see which comment you are referring to, but, oh look! Dave's on an IJA rant! Wow, its just like it's five years ago all over again.
ObJuggle: Paul's moved to Bristol and he showed me one of John Ando's moves at #Altern8 tonight, which I almost learned. I'll try again at Dab Hands tomorrow, but I'll probably need my Dark Magic instead of my Viper.
Small talk is fine for this purpose, but I could create a separate section if there is enough demand for it.
Isn't every new post to rec.juggling a reply to a really old thread? /snark.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I think I'm going to have to ask you for a link or message-id, or as the wikipedia generation would put it [citation needed]
My most recent r.j posts were on the 18th August 2014 (over 2 weeks ago, in which case "do keep up Scott")
* The Decline of Juggling, the Internet, and the World - which was in reply to a post from the 15th August 2014, on a thread which was started 5th August 2014.
* Juggling Soap Bubbles - which was a pertinent reply to a question someone had posted on the 16th August 2014
I assume the latter, and while the thread was old, I make no apology for trying to help someone with a cornsyrup soluble milk jug :)
Where on this site are we supposed to ridicule the really old people talking about "r.j threads"?
Scott Seltzer - - Vorredner #
Yeah, the second one. I was just surprised you answered completely seriously without mentioning that the thread was more than 20 years old. I read it that day, but expected someone else to chime in about the date.
Russian Help!
Hey Guys,
So for a while now I have been toying with the idea of making my own set of Russians, mainly because I don't like any of the Russians that exist on the market right now, I'm not convinced that they are done in the best way, and adhere to far to rigid of a framework.
I've decided I want a set of 70mm hardshell balls, semi-filled (to about 90-100g depeding on what works), with a material that I'll decide on after some R&D.
The main problem I have found is finding a decent supplier of the type of hollow ball that I want that isn't in China only ship huge quantities. It might come to it that I want larger quantities but for R&D I want samples, so I was wondering if anyone knew of any suppliers of these sorts of products, and what materials might be best for what I'm looking for.
I've requested a sample from these guys:
https://www.theppb.co.uk/
So any other links would be mucho appreciated for my project.
Cheers,
Cam
While this may not be quite to the level you want, the linked video tutorial is worth mentioning as the best I've ever seen about making homemade Russians.
https://youtu.be/DtAWREXeRj8
The author suggests that you can use holeless "whiffle" balls and links to an American supplier in the description. These balls are a a vast improvement on playpit balls because they are thick shelled and tough. They are limited to about 73mm in diameter (same size as baseball which is 9 inch circumference).
Juggler Bambi - - Vorredner #
When I was looking into it I found a company called euro-matic that appeared to have some offices in the UK and near me. Their old .com website doesn't exist any more but I think https://euro-matic.eu/ is their new site.
euro-matic does not reply, or they haven't to the mails I've send them.
Their balls are of amazing quality though.
I had a set of euro-matic balls and I would love another but their customer service or policy really sucked.
So I bought intell balls instead.
That will show them, those few hundred balls will make the difference for them. :p
Intell balls are lighter, easier to turn into russians and are very durable as well.
Their shells (80mm) are a little bit more flexible as the euro-matic (74mm or so?) balls but that might be due to the size as well.
Depending on the way you make the holes in your shells: when drilling a hole euromatic shells can crack. 2/32 balls but still. They are the only balls that have that problem.
TL;DR:
Euro-matic shells: great balls, sturdy
Intell balls: also great balls, little bit more flexible, no problems when making the russians.
Jerry Lee Lewis: alse great balls, of fire!
If I was ever going to make a set of Russians (which I wouldn't because they are awful) I'd probably start with a regular stage ball which have a wall thickness measured in mm rather than microns.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Of course, if you would use regular stage balls I understand why you think Russians are awful..
Thanks for the input guys, it seems to be quite a niche thing, hollow balls, and no one seems to offer a large range of sizes :(
I'm wondering how easy it would be to vacuum form my own, could probs get access to a form, would just need to make the negative for it, then I could fill them before putting them together which would totally eliminate the need for any kind of hole, what do people think about that?
I'm pretty sure you can get different types of materials for vacuum forms too, so could experiment myself. I don't really remember much from my design technology at high school, anyone know if this is viable?
So far I've paid ranging from 0.02 to 0.15 € for the balls I use. including shipping.
I have given away a few hundred of those balls.
Lost a few dozen, broke some of the earlier ones, donated 40 to some charity box at a festival and I still have about 200 left.
In total all those balls,about 450 from 4 different kinds, cost me less than €50. (including shipping)
If you decide to form your own shells I would love to see how they turn out but is it worth the effort?
I also think a mold for most forming processes is a lot more expensive.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
How would you vacuum form a ball? I thought that you could only make hemispheres..
Vacuum forming has a set up cost of easily a 1000, and the finishing touches on a small batch are a lot of work too....
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
True that vacuum forming isn't the right choice for a ball, (you would probably want rotational or blow moulding) but you can build a vacuum forming rig for very little money, all you need is a frame to hold the sheet material (easily built out of wood), a heat source to melt it (I've seen people use electric fires, or even domestic ovens) and a vacuum box (easy to construct from MDF and a vacuum cleaner)
Google "diy vacuum forming" there are loads of low cost options.
None of them are going to make a satisfactory Russian ball though
Yeah, was just a thought.
The sample I got sent through is great anyway, I'm just in the process of getting a quote from them, will hopefully order 100 and figure out the best way to fill/seal them. Then work on their aesthetic afterwards.
With that in mind what's a good way to print onto Polypropylene? I'd like to get a logo or some custom design work on there but have no idea where to start!!!
Hey guys,
Here is my proof of concept ball, just ordered 15 to make a set, need to adjust the chalk to salt ratio to give it a darker tint (1st full set will be purple I think), and continue stress testing the silicone sealant as a hole plug but it looks promising.
Need a good name for them, I wanted "Absolute Balls" but it's taken by some stupid golf company (I know, shit right?!?) so am open to suggestions. . ."Balls Deep" is my fave so far.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B43piakjTyYsblZpUlNtUUVVMFd1TFlLdXZ5NzFxMEc5Q0Zv&authuser=0
Cheers,
Cam
Looks good. I recently experimented with making some. I used plastic pellet fill and filled them about 75%, so not really Russian balls but the same idea. I sealed them by basically welding them using a thin strip of plastic cut from another ball and a soldering iron. The result is permanent, air tight and almost invisible.
I was toying with the idea of welding them on, that seems to be the most common way, though this silicone seems to be holing up pretty well so far after running it under water etc...We'll see how it ends up, I guess the silicone isn't as permanent so there is the option (with a bit of effort) to re-weight/color them.
Might do 1 set welded and 1 set filled and see the diff.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I believe Absolute as a trademark is currently owned by Beard isn't it? Eg https://www.beardjuggling.co.uk/product/cosmetic-seconds-absolute-4-panel-juggling-ball-70g
Aye, I shan't be using that name, too much already around it, will think of something further down the road I guess, first thing is to get a working set of these bad boys going.
I think you used the right technique, after some stress testing the silicone plug failed and fell into the ball. I'm going to try soldering a tiny strip into the hole (which is only 4mm in diameter to start with) then using some fine grained sand paper to smooth it out.
I used the soldering iron to smooth it out as much as I could, but sandpaper may help to finish it off.
Yeah I sanded them. . . As it turns out Polypropylene is too stiff, the balls split on a 9 throw hitting the ground. . . .Back to the drawing board I guess, Low Density Polyurethane is the next material to try.
Roll call: who's not at the EJC right now?
Let us unite in our miserable loneliness.
#EJC2014
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I'm not at ejc, I'm tempted to nip out for a Guinness though in sympathy
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Seconded
Sjors Stuurman - - Vorredner #
I second this.
Mike Moore - - Vorredner #
Closer than usual...but no cigar.
Made a video with all the free time, though.
https://youtu.be/z30L7bTW8GU
Cedric Lackpot - - Vorredner #
I'm not at the EJC, I'm at home, having returned from a gig this morning that Circus Kevin couldn't do ... because he's at the EJC! Rah!
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
Not there.. but looking forward to The Green Man. Hopefully the weather will hold!
Ooh, I'm off to that. Kids and other extended family there too mind so I doubt I'm going to have much time to piss about by myself.
I'm not. This is (mostly) because I have freelance gigs though so I can't complain too much.
I'm not, 'cos I just got back.
You all should have seen the Legends show. It was awesome.
mike.armstrong - - Vorredner #
Did he do the Triangle?
mike.armstrong - - Vorredner #
And Donald, shirley? ;o)
I was tempted to fly over just for that show, but sense prevailed...
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I'm glad I'm not the only one who did that
i was wondering, as i live in america, and have my whole life. how does the rest of the world look at us as a country? more out of curiousity as ive noticed that we seem to have a biggoted system when veiwing other countries
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
No free healthcare. You primitives!
thegoheads - - Vorredner #
The millions of americans that get healthcare, then never pay their bills would beg to differ. My oldest brother must've had millions of (insert preferred unit of money here) in medical bills that he never paid. And he somehow kept getting treatment.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Yep, I look at the USA as a country. And as a continent. And as a place to envy because of all the online shopping you can do. And as a place to laugh at because of all the problems we don't have in NL.
Also, I am always confused when I ask someone and they answer 'thisandthisstate'... I always assume that all the states have the same culture anyway, so why not say you are from the USA?
When people ask where I am from I enjoy saying I am from Europe. Not as a joke, but because I have this (unpopular) opinion that we should grow even closer than we are already.
Am I American? I speak American English, absorb American media culture... What do you guys have that I don't?
I do like Gouda cheese and Dutch bread though...
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
as far as the states are concerned their is actually a large cultural gap. say split the country into three parts the northeast the southeast the west. the northeast has a large variaty of people ,ideas, and veiw points. as its were most immagrants went to right of the bat so you get a cultural blend of everything; making it the part of the country that worries about political correctness such as african-american versus black and native-american versus indian. the southeast is a totally diffrent story deep seaded racism is not uncommon due to the prolonged exposure to slavery and becouse of the violence that offen centered around other cultures in the south even today its primarily small white towns with some level of racism open or not (this does not include florida as it fits more to the western catigory) the west filled with people of all kinds is the largest area it was developed later and therfore doesnt have the northeastern relation to britian (meaning only the cities look diffrent) and while there is some racism due to the chinese and the irish immagrants taking a large majority of the pay in the days of the railroad; the cultural devide exposes kids more and more recently its been less biggoted than in years past. on top of all this each state has somthing it does or is known for like idaho potatoes or corn form iowa, theirs also crabs from main, surfers in california, the list goes on... i hope this gave some insight to the whole country then state thing.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Thanks for the clarification.
However, this makes your states sound like they are as different from each other as the provinces of the Netherlands, the Bundeslaender of Germany or the countries of the UK.
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
they really are we have accents for the diffrent region and slang is litarally a class you can take in colledge its called ebonics america has a rich history leading up to obamacare ("free" healthcare) a horribly dumb system that will probibly get repealed and the idea of free healthcare would die with it. is it that hard... i mean the canadians figured it out (meant as a joke i have nothing against canadians)
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Yes, getting free healthcare is hard now. It would have been easier to solve 200 years ago but nobody then saw this coming.
The tagline for the USA was freedom. Nothing wrong with freedom, everyone thought, so they used this term for anything they could think of. Freedom to protect yourself (I have the freedom not to need to protect myself, but that is a whole different story), free market.
Free market? Freedom of one can reduce freedom of another. Free market is a parasitical virus that quickly reduced everyone's freedom except the 1%. But since freedom was 'good' free market was allowed to take over the medical industry, and thereby making it twice as expensive as in the rest of the world. This is a price no government would be able to afford for their citizens, and now it is hard to change it back.
Good intentions, bad results. I don't understand why Obama gets so much critique for his good intentions (and possibly bad results), but the founding fathers never get this kind of critique!
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
its more the exeption clauses that get me( cancer patients, people with cronic anything really) and it raised unemployment because companies had to pay more for each person on staff leading to heavy lay offs. and while i can conceave no way to fix these problems i would have just left well enough alone and focus on real problems like the horrid amounts of outsourcing that leave us at a high unemployment rate
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I don't know enough about obamacare to comment on this.
Solving outsourcing seems like a silly thing to me. Aren't we all happy if someone else does our work?
In the end most of our jobs will be outsourced to technology. Better become an artist, it seems that this field will take longest before it can be outsourced to robots!
Consider watching this if you are interested in understanding how technology will replace all jobs.
https://youtu.be/0SuGRgdJA_c
And this docu doesn't even deal with the upcoming AI superintelligence explosion. ( https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Intelligence_explosion )
thegoheads - - Vorredner #
" I don't understand why Obama gets so much critique for his good intentions (and possibly bad results), "
Widespread ignorance and propaganda is my best guess.
That single sentence quoted above sounds more intelligent than anything I've ever heard a fellow american say about Obama. The general mentality around here is that Obama is our dictator and can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and is purposely destroying our country because he's a stupid poopey-face.
I know nothing of politics and have purposely never followed any of it. Still, Obama seems to be the first leader genuinely trying to make things better for Joe Average, which is not profitable for Joe Super-Rich, hence the propaganda.
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
Apart from the accents I don't think there is any cultural difference between the provinces of NL. (If you mention carnaval I'll kill you!(in a figurative way))
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Different industries, different education levels, different building styles, different histories, different political viewpoints, different landscapes, different religions, CARNAVAL!
You should spend more time traveling trough your own country ;). I biked around many many summers and this taught me a lot! Of course, since the automobile and the internet the differences are fading, but there are still enough people living where their families came from, carrying on their traditions and habits.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
In Brazil!
And in the not so civilized part of the Netherlands where Rob lives ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_in_the_Netherlands
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
That's true but don't get me mixed up! I despise it!
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
It's a holiday that's only celebrated in the two most south provinces (North-Brabant and Limburg) which is unfortunately where I live. There are special tents set up for it where people can go to dressed up in weird costumes. There seems to be an exception for the ages 12 to 18 who will go as sluts. People use it as an excuse to not do anything and get drunk. On top of that your brain will explode from the worst music possible that is blasted non-stop for 4 days out of those tents. E.g. https://youtu.be/Jz0w1EDhYic .
I always say that carnaval is just like a juggling convention only without the juggling, fun people and games and with tons and tons of wasted people.
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
And the whole year through if you something as trivial as jogging pants (literal translation; I don't think it's called that way in English) you will get lots of mean comments on it but when it's carnaval it's suddenly OK to get dressed up as a condom...
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
Sounds like marte gras in new orleans.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I was half expecting that link to be gabber... But I guess Rotterdam is too far north for you ;)
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
What do you mean? I don't get the reference probably because I'm from the south ;)
RegularJugular - - Vorredner #
According to wonkypedia
"Although a house variant from Detroit reached Amsterdam in the late 1980s, it was the producers and DJs from Rotterdam who evolved it into a harder house variant which is today known as "gabber"."
I know someone who seems to love gabber.
Also I thought that based on some Dutch radio station I heard the other week, music like the what you posted was the majority of the music played in Holland ;p (It sounded similar to me although mostly a bit more traditional)
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
I'm glad it's not traditional Dutch music. I don't know if there's such a thing as traditional music here. Most of the music that people listen to is foreign. There are, however, some bands who seem to really nail Dutch music such as Doe Maar.
Typical music associated with is I'm afraid to say Schlager or 'het levenslied'.
I've often regretted sharing a language with you guys because that makes it way to easy to expert that music to Belgium.
I can forgive you though because of Doe Maar.
Roflcopter - - Vorredner #
I hate how when someone talks about the south, the first thing that comes up is racism. I'm just making a general statement here but why does everyone think we are down here hanging blacks from trees or making sure that they drink from a different fountain. There is a huge integration of white and black here in the southeast precisely because of slavery. We lost the civil war and the freed slaves didn't leave. With this there has actually been a decrease in racist behavior( to an extent). I'm not saying that there aren't a lot or racists down here because there are. Even blacks, some are into this Afro-centrism type deal. I dunno I'm just trying to make the point that "Racism" is not a valid point to pose southeastern culture on. I don't wanna make some big like political race deal on a juggling forum so I won't say anything else on it.
I'm a certified South Carolinian
I think one of the problems as an an outsider is only the extremeness of a country/culture is seen as newsworthy by the media, so we only see the extremities - westbro baptists, anti-abortionists murdering doctors, refusal to reach science that includes evolution theory, lynch mobs, people living in poverty, corrupt police and politics - and then we generalise and base our views on this narrow viewpoint.
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
@ roflcopter while yes lynchings no longer happen and we all poo in the same grubby stalls at wallmart racism is what shaped the culture thats why there are those black-centerized people. I wasnt saying thats the only diffrence but its a large one
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
If you want to know how we view the USA, do what we all do and watch your tv shows and films, listen to your music, and drink your rediculously sugary soft drinks.
We really have very little else to go on.
Unfortunately.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
Oh, and Dear America - please stop GETTING BACON WRONG!
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
This gave me a hearty laugh thanks for that early morning pick me up
thegoheads - - Vorredner #
Okay, I'll bite. How does this america place get bacon wrong?
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
American Bacon: Thin cut, narrow, short strips of belly pork cooked until they're crunchy and inflexible. It's about 50% fat, and is inedible as a sandwich filling unless hidden amongst other ingredients.
British Bacon: "back bacon" - Thicker cut, wider slices of pork loin - still attached to a section of belly pork, with about 10-20% fat surrounding a large succulent piece of pigmeat. Cooked gently in a frying pan until the fat renders down leaving the rest flexible, succulent and juicy.
Ideal in a sandwich, bread slightly moist from bacon juices. Available in smoked, unsmoked and wet/dry cured versions either with the rind (skin) still attached or trimmed up. I favour dry cured, smoked, rindless.
British Bacon: "streaky bacon" is also available over here, but is much less popular. It's belly pork like american bacon, but with a milder cure and thicker slices. Even when we use that, we don't cook it to within an inch of it's life like you guys do.
"Canadian Ham" - like British bacon, but trimmed to within an inch of it's life with not a piece of fat in sight. In my (limited) experience, this is worse than american bacon as while it might *look* right it's dry and uninteresting.
Also - seriously america, WTF?
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
YesYesYes: https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/3/7/1331136694122/Felicitys-perfect-bacon-s-007.jpg
NoNoNo: https://www.thedeliciouslife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/bottega-louie-bacon-sandwich.jpg
thegoheads - - Vorredner #
"like you guys do."
I buy the good thick slices and cook them the "british" way. Apparently I wasn't doing it "wrong". I see the thin slices on the shelf and am aware that I could buy those and overcook them if I wanted to, but I don't. Just personal preference, I never even knew I was doing it the "british" or "correct" way. Sorry to disappoint your american stereotype :P
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
Americans know how to put on a good spread when it comes to BBQs. Marinated steaks, salads, jacket potatoes corn on the cob.. etc. They really put some love into it. Of course some americans have been known to put no effort into their BBQ's at all, then get really drunk and burn all their horrible cheap meat to a cinder, just like the British do!
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
depends on were you buy your bacon i get mine from arthur ,an amish town, (for those who dont know amish is the name for a group of people gennerally christian who shun electricity and use horse and buggies) were the pig is fresh killed and the bacon is thick and juicy, just like you described over there. that is the best way to do bacon i concur.
noslowerdna - - Vorredner #
Are you referring to the Bacon Explosion?
Bacon Explosion
Heard of Louis Theroux? I think you're all like the people he talks to! :P
My most enduring impression of Americans was formed at BJC 2004 where we were joined by Jonathan Root, Bill Berry, the La Salle brothers, Jay Gilligan & Matt Hall who all worked their socks off for the whole festival, performing, running workshops, hosting shows, giving up their time in the big top to help & talk to others & more. All were powerhouses of enthusiasm & were amazing genuine people. You couldn't ask for finer ambassadors for your country.
Yes, your country has a lot of problems but guess what? So does mine. There are bigoted arseholes everywhere. Just make sure you are not one of them & don't tolerate their behaviour.
Oh & get yourself to a festival outside of the US sometime!
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
oh I want to sometime but Im as broke as a rope
To sum it up my thoughts in a sentence: A high tech country with a generally backward society.
RegularJugular - - Vorredner #
Years ago I heard from someone who'd lived in the USA and England and they said that one of the most obvious differences between the USA and England how much more "flag-waving" goes on in the USA. I believe he was talking about an excess of National Pride that sometimes seems to overwhelm US citizens, for example crying depending on whether their desired president gets elected or not.
My personal investment into US politics used to extend as far as hoping a Democrat would win, because George W Bush's speeches were awful compared to what the other party's scriptwriters managed to pull off. I really wanted Obama to win his first term in office, because I thought that when I saw US politics on the news, he would be significantly less annoying. Kerry also... What it has since taught me is how little difference there is between the two. One does have better scriptwriters than the other, no question.
However, most of the way I see the USA is through, like, y'know that telly box and it's morality plays. The US does the world a wonderful service with it's portrayal of itself as some all seeing, all caring World Police. The UK does the same. My attention span for cola adverts has improved though-out my life. I also loved Scrubs, although I could never get along with ER or House. That said I love how House tends to use narrow DoF from what I've seen, if only real life were like that.
Regarding American Healthcare:
https://youtu.be/qSjGouBmo0M
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/health-care-costs-_n_3998425.html
US citizens pay more than UK citizens (per capita) to get healthcare that they then have to pay for. Haha *Ironic Nelson style laugh* The jokes on us though, our government appears to think healthy fiscal policy looks like https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/446363611972534272
I'm still looking for my point, although I largely agree with LP and Orin. However I find it really difficult not to be a "bigoted arsehole" I used to think if I could identify Racism in places that weren't me then I wasn't racist or bigoted. Identity has many layers and is strange stuff.
Looking at theses questions it is clear I was not the one to do the trivia
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
Aww! I hope you're not feeling disheartened, I like the way your idea is panning out if you're learning half as much as I am you're doing well!
Even for questions I've failed to answer, I've found some interesting dead ends!
I've been thinking about how I would go about writing some questions, so if you want to set some more - perhaps potter along to https://www.juggling.org/jb/ and https://www.juggling.org/jw/ they're a mine of information about who named this, who popularised that, who was the first to the other.
For example, "who named Alberts Alberts, and Treblas Treblas?"
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
Nope, not nick gatto
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Yeah, please go trough those links and throw interesting facts at us! Either in the form of trivia, or any other way.
I am glad you inspired me to make up some questions, it was a lot of fun! However I am completely out of questions now, so someone needs to take over again :)
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
Point goes to David :)
My reference was this long forgotten glossary page https://juggling.org/help/faqs/glossary.html
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Nice link. There I learned what Koosh balls are. But so-called "real" jugglers do not use Koosh balls...
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
Koosh balls: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=koosh+balls&tbm=isch
I thought it was interesting how club terminology has shifted since the mid 90s (when I think that glossary was compiled) - what is generally called the "body" of the club used to be called the "bell"
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I still hear old passing terms every now and then but I am glad most of the world knows onecount or perhaps ultimates.. but thundershower? And for the box, I recently learned U-shape but curtains?
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
Passing terminology trivia question: Who came up with the term "heff" for a self double?
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Interesting question...
Since every juggler that I know that says "heff" is juggling Aidan style, I am going to guess Aidan... But why would Aidan come up with a unlogical name? Nope, someone else must have done it...
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
It's not Aidan, but it was coined by a Brit
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Brook, James, are there any other passers over there? I should come to a BJC one day...
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
There are plenty of other passers over here :)
I'll give some others a chance to answer, or I could give you the hint that the answer is in the rec.juggling archives if you search.
Oh, and yes. You should come to a BJC. They're great!
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Ah yeah, why didn't I think of searching the rec.juggling... I only searched google! (I am such a newb)
Sadly I don't know who Cookie/Beardy Alan is... but he supposedly came up with it ;)
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
"Cookie" is Paul Cookson. He's not around on the juggling scene much any more, he was more of a climber/mountaineer last time I saw him.
"Beardy Alan" is Alan Weathers who used to work for https://www.butterfingers.co.uk and was an awesome bounce juggler before age caught up with him. He's a lovely bloke and now runs a B&B https://www.21parklane.com
But I wasn't expecting that level of detail in the answer ;)
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
"Cookie was sayng f for four 'cos he was doing some self doubles. Alan misheard him and thought he was saying 'heff' "
Sounds legit
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I just realize how cool it is to be a child of the information age. Check all these pointless facts I can find about the most extraordinary hobby.... Imagine what can be found out about other topics...
If only I could also research the Russian/Chinese/Japanese/French internet... It is already such an effort to remember that there is interesting stuff in Dutch and German too..
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
https://www.circuscentrum.be/nl/Circuscentrum/ Here is an interesting Dutch/Flemish site (although I just saw it also has English translations). This is literally the only good Dutch website about juggling that I'm aware of so if you have got some more let me know! There is also a really good looking French blog with interviews of great jugglers https://www.jongleries.net/eric-longequel Your French is probably better than mine and even I can understand some of it if I try hard enough ;)
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Circusmuseum.nl
CHeck out these pictures! https://www.circusmuseum.nl/index.php?option=com_memorix&Itemid=26&task=result&PHPSESSID=93480f9ab97378d6e3658838ebb5c9c4
https://www.circusweb.nl/ all basic circus info you need in NL, and always news!
They also have a forum, if you need random info ask here and someone will answer https://www.circuswereld.nl/phpBB3/
Dutch records, plain but functional and up to date: https://www.simonacampo.nl/nederlandserecords.html
Similarily useful: https://www.nkjongleren.nl/index.php/page/Uitslagen.html
Jongleer Prikbord, the only 'active' dutch juggling forum outside facebook
https://jongleren.startpagina.nl/prikbord/
It seems dead, but if you post something (preferably gossip about people we all know)
you'll get replies within a day.
Oh and how about our only famous prop maker? Spotlight makes the world's best silicon balls and kendama's, but David is not really Dutch of course... https://www.siliconeballs.com/
Helaas is Diastylo van voor jouw tijd... Bestaat niet meer! Oh en vroeger was circusplanet.net ook echt superhandig, maar ook van het web af... Daar heb ik mijn eerste devilstick truuks geleerd van RoB, die was toen mijn held!
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
Circusplanet heb ik ook meegemaakt! Op dag één dat ik mijn eenwieler had ging ik daar opstap trucjes leren en ik zou later ook wat dingen van RoB leren :) Dat siliconeballs.com Nederlands is! Als ik dat had geweten en niet had gedacht dat ik 30 euro verzendkosten moest betalen had ik misschien ooit stuiterballen gekocht.
Because English is too mainstream, that's why!
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I'm glad to see https://www.nkjongleren.nl/index.php/page/Uitslagen.html is still going, I've not heard much about it for several years.
I *think* it's the only formalised, technical juggling competition held outside the USA (this years WJF intercontinental championship doesn't count as it's video based)
Unless there are any others I'm not aware of?
Rob van Heijst - - Vorredner #
There is a huge mistake in the results and some of spelling mistakes in the names. In 2012 it says that Casper Klop got 1st place with the devilstick competition, Thomas 2nd and Pam 3rd. In reality Pam won the competition and Casper got third place... I don't know if the results of 2007/8/9 also contain mistakes since I haven't been there.
That being said it's a pretty fun convention and some of the old-school jugglers give it credits for the increasing skill in The Netherlands.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
The orders have been shifted around. Things used to say 1 2 3 in different orders, but someone replaced that all to the little bullets.. I don't know who is the webmaster atm, possibly Jasper. You can send an email...
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
I know they copied our model once in Belgium, but that was a single event quite some years ago. Also I for some reason always assumed there was a Japanese competition, but now that I think of it that might be just an artistic one...
I guess it is the only technical juggling comp except for WJF!
It is not taken very seriously though, but there are 4 Dutch professional jugglers who proudly call themselves 'Dutch Champions' so that is cool for them.
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
their should be more official juggling competitions soonish though with the rise in the popularity of the sport (yes I said it sport) i hope to see more compititions in the future
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
This rise was in 2004, right? When the WJF and the Dutch championships started...
Besides that, there seems to be no rise right now...
I don't mind competitions and I don't mind thinking of juggling as a sport.
However, those who make their money with juggling can not thing of juggling as a sport, they have to think of juggling as entertainment and therefor have very very different values. But since those are the ones that earn enough with juggling to allow training 24/7, they are often the best...
None of those professionals have been motivated to come back to sport events years after years, even if they could win them easily. Not at the NK, not at the WJF... Their motivation to juggle just comes from something else!
All the 'sport' jugglers move on after some time, they need to make money, right? Just very few are so self-motivated (Peter Bone) that they keep at it in their 20's, but since they are self motivated they don't need to come to sport events either.
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
my definition of sport might be slightly diffrent i mean football (american or not) is a sport and people watch for entertainment all the time i think that the level of skill in young jugglers will eventually reach a point that the compotitions will gain popularity and that will rack in the dollars or euros or whatever. ( dont blame me im a steadfast optomist)
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
But what makes you conclude that there is currently a rise?
Also, the difference between football and juggling is that in football only a quarter (estimate) of the audience also plays as a hobby whereas in sport juggling every single audience member also currently juggles.
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
i concluded there was a rise that actually ended recently it went from about 2004 to now i make this conclusion on the amount of young jugglers you see who are genuinly good. i credit this rise to the information age as new information is available people who thought it was interesting can now get into juggling for realzies
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
Yes, the youtube rise is still going, but it is affecting all of juggling equally, not specifically sport juggling.
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
i figure that teh more jugglers in more parts the more will want to test themselves against others ( not saying id want to go head to head with anthony or volva galchenko ( i probibly butchered that spelling leave me alone)) but against some more hobbyists there just to see how they do that would be fun)
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
It is possible that it would work that way.
I myself assume and hope for another effect:
The more jugglers, the more people will realize that they can not become the best at technical numbers juggling. Therefor more people will seek out unique ways in which they can be the best, such as new tricks, new props, new styles, new goals. We can see it now already, our favorite new jugglers are Wes, Patrik and Tony etc, all jugglers who come up with new material all of the time. Lauge Benjaminnsen Will be remembered as the spinning kid. Alexander Koblikov as the multiplex monster.
There used to be one "best juggler" (Anthony), now there are 20.
Technical juggling will remain and the level will rise, but not as fast as new jugglers join the scene.
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
I can def see where ur coming from it might be my lack of time in this community (ive only been juggling for a year and a half or so)
So my observations arent personal their based on videos ive watched on some juggling gatherings, they seemed to be growing in numbers. However i default to real experience. Thanks for the insight
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I don't see much of a rise, attendance at WJF events has been pretty static for years now.
From what I've seen of the comps, the average WJF competitor is still young, white, male, affluent background and generally learnt to juggle under 5 years ago. Im not seeing much of a shift there since 2004 either.
The WJF seems to get kids at the start of their juggling career, but doesn't seem to retain them. They either stop juggling, or move on to other parts of the juggling world.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing (there's room for all kinds of jugglers) but while WJF attendance is still smaller than many 1day fests in Europe, it's not going to change much.
It does make a lot of noise on youtube though
Robotic juggle - - Vorredner #
I do agree im glad some of the trickes have been renamed or just broken down into their siteswaps; for instance 441 ,as we mentioned recently, was known as parallel schizophrenia and while i like that name its not winning any awards for most politacally correct... or are americans the only one who care about that?
I think there is an unfinished book in the style of (very roughly)the encyclopedia of ball juggling floating around the Belgian/Dutch part of the internet as well.
Addicted?
yes addicted
https://portalmalabares.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/addicted-to-juggling-hans-vanwynsberghe.pdf
I'm curious to know what would've happened in another age.
If it wouldn't have been possible to share this partial work with the world, would it have been completed or would it have never been shared with another person?
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
Your question was a good one and the answer was a real surprise for me. As LP has already mentioned your idea has really started something here. Well done - great idea!
Roflcopter - #
Wishlist
List here the next props, items, or toys that you plan on owning next. 4 items (quantity of said items no counting i.e. 3 mouth sticks is counted as one item) in order of importance to you. I always like hearing others interests in props. I'll start:
1. 5 white delphins
2. 5 yellow(?) mmx plus
3. 24 or 29 inch unicycle
4. a mouthstick
Roflcopter - - Vorredner #
colour (like the British spelling?) or other small details are also nice.
thegoheads - - Vorredner #
poi
RegularJugular - - Vorredner #
I'd quite like
a Kendama
a yoyo that I can get along with (this item may not exist)
Some jumping stilts (pro-jumps, powerizers, etc) although I'm not really sure, considering how much I hurt myself using them last time and they take up much space.
More unicycles, although I think I'd prefer more space to put them first.
A decent training space.
I'm moving and will lose my 12m high (but very cold) garage.
decent cigar boxes
a decent stick for the trick at 2:22 in https://youtu.be/UZm94ou4FOM
I bet at least one person on the juggling edge can tell me what Jon Peat used.
I've used a wooden stick with a audioplug screwed into the end.
It works great but breaks easily if it drops on the wrong end.
Alternatively I've just used a ...machine tool to create an oval shape at the end of a wooden stick.
More friction but you can drop this a few times without breaking it.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I don't know what Jon is using (looks like it's possibly some variant of the carbon fibre tent/fishing pole approach?) but I used to use a 6ft garden cane with a pop rivet pushed into the end and held in place with a bit of tape.
I say "used to" because I've since swapped the pop rivet for the end off a cheap plastic spinning plate stick. It's a bit smoother so I find it's a little kinder on the ball. Although attacking the pop rivet with a piece of sandpaper would probably have done the same job!
If I'm travelling any distance to a fest and for some reason I'm not taking the car/van (so don't have space for the cane) I just take the tip with me and stop off at a local garden centre near the fest to buy a replacement cane.
Whatever you use, I've found it better for the pole to be slightly flexible rather than stiff as it takes some of the wobble out of the balance introduced by precession of the ball.
I've tried using tent poles from a tent I had lying around.
The cheaper versions aren't strong enough for me. I use regular footballs for ball spinning and they were too heavy.
Luckily the broken pole could still sort of hold the tent upright and my dog enjoys having her own little home.
I think what I'm using could be a garden cane as well. It seems like a fitting name for it.
Google image search only returns bamboo sticks which mine isn't. The size is similar though and I like that it is a little heavier as bamboo.
I've always considered buying spinning plates just to toy with them for a while but I couldn't imagine getting into plate spinning*. Maybe I'll buy them and use the stick as a better tip for my pole as soon as I tire of them.
* Isn't padiddling much cooler?
For the Bungay Trick (for that is the official name) I use a bamboo cane, available very cheaply from any garden centre. So does Monte who I first saw do the trick (at Bungay, naturally). I also use a pop-rivet (blind rivet). I make sure the cane is reasonably straight - there's always some bend in them, but I make sure when balancing it that the bend is in line with the centre of my body, so it doesn't really affect the balance. The rivet has to be a smooth one (some are a bit ragged) to avoid damaging the ball. Pros: this is all very cheap, Cons: it doesn't pack down neatly. My ball is particularly light compared to standard footballs.
I've also tried tent poles and extending fishing rods (too flexible for me) although I know others are happy with them (Rob Fiery, Ste3void for example). Depends where you'll be working on it I suppose: I used to keep a spare pole at our local workshop.
I'm still using my original stick which I have had since the last Taunton convention which I'm guessing was about 18 or 19 years ago.My pole has quite a big bend in it but as I look at the ball not the stick it doesn't seem to affect the balance.
I thought the trick was called the "Bungay entrance exam" after a throw away comment during one of my early Bungay performances.
I heard this week that I have been accepted to do a food stall at EJC Millstreet.I am very exited about this as I have wanted to do one since attending my first EJC in Grenoble 1999.When I have my menu's finalised I will give juggling edge a sneak preview.
Monte
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I've pretty much fallen out of the "must buy new toys!" cycle, although I'm looking forward to seeing Dan The Hat's new manipulation caps at BJC. Although if I had to list some, the following have been on my shopping list for quite some time:
1 - A vent puppet. I keep myself amused on long car journeys by practising ventriloquism, but I don't have a suitable puppet yet.
2 - 30 years after I was first given a set, it's high time I splashed out on some good quality cups and balls. I want a nicely weighted set which are a joy to use, in the hope that then I'll enjoy playing with them. There's a lot of research needed before I spend any money though, as I'm looking to spend a fair amount.
3 - I might eventually buy some Albatross clubs (5 of, in a solid colour, probably either white or orange) but as I only juggle clubs twice a year (and when I do, there are always plenty of spares around to borrow) it doesn't seem worth the effort
4 - A nicely tailored suit jacket, with a topit installed.
None of the above are ever likely to be used for performance, although No 4 might well be used for a wedding.
A vent puppet.
That sounds fun! Ventriloquism is one of the many variety acts that has all but died out.
A few years ago we hired a local ventriloquist for one of our kids parties, a guy called Karl Jeffery (https://www.themagicalventriloquist.co.uk). His acts was fantastic, full of humour and slapstick.
You can find some really good performers doing the rounds at kids parties. One of my favourites is the (rather generically titled) Mr. Merlin (https://www.mrmerlin.co.uk/), I've booked him about three times so far! Another local favourite of mind is Captain Raggy Beard - who is primarily a storyteller, there are very few of them around these days.
Anyhow, you keep yourself amused on long car journeys. Are you the driver?! I can imagine you with a large bird on one arm, holding the steering wheel in its beak ;-)
Colin E.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I managed to lose most of the evening last night clicking around youtube watching videos of children's entertainers. It's been a long time since I last did a show for a kids birthday party so I've been a bit out of the loop - but the amount of respect I've got for a good kids entertainer is immense.
Birthday party magicians come in for a lot of stick from other magicians (and a lot of the poor quality ones deserve it!) but to do it well is a real skill that takes a fair bit of effort to perfect. It's not something I've had cause to look into since I quit performing myself and got a real job - so it was an evening well spent.
Anyway, long car journeys - yes it's me driving (and generally the only one in the car, or I wouldn't be talking to myself) - your suggestion of driving with the puppet reminds me. I used to keep a set of ping pong balls and a shell in the car. If I was stuck in a traffic jam, I would amuse myself by waiting until there was a car full of kids next to me, and then producing an endless stream of ping pong balls from my mouth.
Lots of fun to be had when they inevitably jump up and down until their parents turn to look at which point I would stop and go back to watching the road... until the parents turn away again.
I once did the food ay a story telling convention in St Donats in Wales. There were a large number of story tellers there, perhaps into 3 figures. It was a really nice event which had been going for years and is probably still happening now.
I have been playing with doing some vent stuff, but not really sure what I want to do with it. Just been doing some basic practicing, still having trouble with plosives, but otherwise getting the hang of it. There is a guy in town who would be a fantastic character, and another who, if caricatured, would make an excellent puppet.
Otherwise, I pretty much have what I want/will be allowed to get for the time being.
I will buy some replacement Henry's pirouettes at the BJC.
I might buy any unusual prop the grabs my interest as long as not many people do it.
I wish for a large and high space where I can run a circus (in particular it needs to have storage and I need to be able to hang aerial stuff in it) the minimum cost of this is something like £25k so I can't see it happening soon.
Nigel
I think I've just about managed to kick the new props habit. I love new toys as much as the next person but I've come to realise that I will always come back to balls & clubs, anything else is just going to be a fad with me. A couple of years ago I had a big sale of loads of kit that I got rid of to a new home where they would see a bit more attention. The ~£300 I made selling off unused props was very useful too.
That said I am very impatiently waiting for some new skates...
On my wish list is a couple of acres of land with a massive barn and a big top so I could hold another Kevention.
Cedric Lackpot - - Vorredner #
1. A bigger garage to keep my existing crap in.
2. A second hand juggling store to flog all my vast quantity of unloved and unused juggling kit in.
3. A bonfire for all the other crap.
4. A pair of matched Victor Tella 16-plait 8-foot bullwhips, for a mere $1,000.
Also, make your own mouthstick. Start with a wooden spoon from the kitchen and get whittling. Seriously, do it.
Daniel Simu - - Vorredner #
1 3 Silicon bouncing balls 76mm. White or yellow depending on how much the yellow looks like my current balls
2 Renegade spinning rings!
3 Mirages! They are so much cooler than my pirouettes! Too bad that I never juggle clubs anyway and if I do I borrow from other people, I never bring my own.
4 White sil-x light 78mm to replace my yellow ones in case of a performance
I need some other props which I'll more likely get before any of these listed above, but I probably need to build them myself...