Boulder Juggling Festival 2012 HLGCBS
H: Waking from the sedative to discover that during the endoscopy they had removed the tube going up my nose and down my throat.
L: The insertion of said tube. I have a new found respect, and disdain, for blockheaders.
G: To give a good workshop and show performance. Hmmmm.... The two nights in the hospital didn't help, but the two of my three days I taught went well, and I am proud I made it out in time for the show! I'll give this a 50% achievement rate.
C: Unoriginal, but the organisors: Bekah Smith, Warren Hammond, Cindy Marvell. They put together a great weekend, as well as doing so much to get me over, and being so supportive and helpful when it was needed!
B: Plastic tubing. And all the places it can be put.
S: In the USA, the fast-response paramedic team isn't a fast car or a motorcycle like in Europe. It's a full size FIRE TRUCK! Complete with burly six man crew.
#hlgcbs #boulderfestival
Little Paul - #
Just in case David doesn't make it over here, I thought I'd mention his new website https://www.historicaljugglingprops.com
He's got some amazing props in his collection. Some of them belonged to (and in a couple of cases are signed by) some big name jugglers, and I find it fascinating to see what sort of balls Bobby May used, or what the plates Nick Gatto used in his act look like.
As well as those, he's putting together a collection of especially interesting or innovative juggling clubs, and that really tickles my how-things-are-made button. So many approaches were tried along the way before we got to the pretty standard construction methods used today.
The Stu Raynolds fibreglass clubs are beautiful. I don't know how much they've been dropped since 1969 but their condition looks infinitely better than my 6 year old PX3s.
The thing is though I don't think there has been much development of juggling clubs. We've had a few decades now of industrialised manufacture but the majority of clubs are essentially a central dowel, a molded body, a wrapped handle & some end pieces.
I'd love to have the tools & know how to experiment. I have lost count of the number of sets of clubs I have gone through. But I have some Beard DX Chroma+ stage balls that I have had for nearly as long as I've been juggling that aside from having lost the suede effect & being a bit duller in colour are still as structurally solid as the day I bought them.
I think there is a lot more mileage in the "one piece" (Why are one-piece clubs so called? There are quite clearly two molded parts joined together!!!) design which is generally the cheaper option for manufacturing. One piece clubs have two main problems:
- Too light/flimsy
- Handles are too hard
The third problem of poor balance is just a case of bad design, 'weights' can be incorporated into the molded pieces at the correct points.
I'd like a "one-piece" club made from the same material as my DX balls (much softer than the relatively brittle plastic used in modern clubs) with a similar wall thickness which at a guess feels ~5mm. Then I'd like the seams to be polished or sueded away. The thicker shell would make up for problem 1 & the softer plastic would fix problem 2.
If rigidity is still a problem I think a three-piece one-piece design could work. A club could be made from 3 'T' shaped sections so that if you cut the club in half & looked down through the centre it would look like the Mercedes badge.
Handles are also open to innovation. I've yet to try a molded tube handle (found on Beard Beach & the option available for PX3s) that I've felt comfortable with. For me each club I've squeezed has distorted into an oval far too much which just feels awkward, any change in shape affects your perception of the object & hence affects the next throw. Wrapped handles are generally better but I find they chip really easily leaving sharp bits that need to be trimmed. I think the thick leading edge is too open for wear & tear.
I would love to try a braided handle (think the cover of a braided rope[1]). A handle braided over with yarn could work if you could solve the problem of sheath slippage. Or you could braid thin strips of plastic to achieve higher wear without losing shock absorption.
[1] eg: https://www.boatersoutlet.com/ProductImages/performance/braid-on-braid-600.jpg
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
"two moulded parts joined together" - I was under the impression that most clubs are blow or rotationally moulded in a single piece. The seam you see is where the two halves of the mould meet, not where the two halves of the club are stuck together. I could be wrong though, I'm not exactly intimately involved with club manufacturing ;)
"too light" - Dube Airflites and Spoltlight one-piece clubs are a pretty decent weight (and balance for that matter) I think they both achieve this by varying the wall thickness. "Dube Klassic Americans" are certainly not at all light, and have a lovely floaty spin.
"handles too hard" - well that's tricky to get around with in a single piece mould as to make the handle have more give you'd need to make it thinner, which moves weight away from the handle end of the club. This is solved in a "two piece" club by moving the weight to the dowel. I don't know how the Play one-piece clubs shape up, but they're touted as a softer one-piece club.
I like your idea of giving the club an internal structure (although that might get tricky to manufacture without either making it out of several mouldings welded together, or making it an open ended structure and then welding on a cap of some kind) I think that's the sort of problem that you could probably solve with additive 3D printing (if you can find a suitable material to extrude/sinter)
Tube handles are somewhat variable between manufacturers.
Beard beach - soft vinyl tube handle. Not the most offensive part of that club by a long way, but a bit on the soft side for me. And fat. My got they're *fat* no visible seams though which is nice.
PX3 - much harder plastic, almost no give in the handle at all, very visible (and irritating) seams on the ones I've seen
Henrys Delfin - slightly softer feel than the PX3 but still not all that flexible. Nice size though, still get seam problems not evident on the beach
Babache Flip - somewhere between the beach and the delfin. IMHO a nicer handle than either (pity about the rest of the club ;-).
I have some beard circus specials around somewhere which I fitted with flip handles, and PX3 knobs. They're really rather nice but I've only made 3 of them.
The idea of a braided handle is a nice one. I'm not sure I know enough about braiding to make an attempt at building something, but if anyone does I'd love to see it!
One thing which does occur to me is that in the diabolo world there are people making after market axel kits. There are various after market spares available for yo-yos as well. Why is there so little market for after-market spares in the club world? I can't be the only person who has wanted to tweak the structure of their clubs (changing handles/knobs etc)
Cedric Lackpot - - Vorredner #
Spotlight one-piece are categorically not decent in either weight or balance. Just sayin'.
Since PX3 changed their knobs and ends a few years ago to the harder rubber (and at the same time started making them in all* colours to match the clubs?), I've seen a lot of people with henry's pirouettes with coloured px3 knobs. I think it might be a bit of 2 factors - on the one hand, much like adding coloured tape to a white pirouette to make it more identifyable, and because other people** prefer the hard rubber knobs.
Since the Play D club has been out (It's a lot like a one-piece club, but I'm not sure if it's actually made from one piece or not), they've been selling silicone grippy bits to add to the club in all* patterns & colours.
* well...
** I think they're awful.
Good point about rotational molding, although I think this is only used for the bodies of multi-piece clubs. IIRC long & thin objects are very difficult to do with this method because it is hard to get the walls consistent in the far corners. Techniques will have undoubtedly improved though so I may be wrong.
Additive printing is great, but certainly not going to bring the price of clubs down! I'd happily go to a show in the big top at a festival where someone manufactures a club in this way though.
Good point about after market kits. I think diabolos are a little different though. From a spare parts point of view most diabolos are of a much higher build quality relative to clubs & last a lot longer (I still have & use the first Henry's Circus I ever bought 18 years ago). If an axle wears out or is damaged the bells are usually still perfectly usable so it is worth reusing them. In my experience by the time something on a juggling club breaks or wears out all the other components aren't far behind either. I've only ever repaired half a dozen clubs at most.
That said a lot of the kits are wider axles to enable hand grinds or LED kits or similar, either way they are modifications that change the properties of the diabolo in a fundamental way. Passe Passe's modular system where you could fix a standard bulb or a fire torch to the same handle was a nice idea but hasn't exactly proved popular though. It would be nice to be able to custom build clubs from a variety of components from different manufacturers.
I think that how a diabolo or yo-yo performs is given a much higher value, whereas the performance of a club is perceived as much less important compared to the skill of the juggler. I also think this perception is very wrong!
Clubs also suffer from mass production in that they have become far more disposable. I know most of my clubs have been broken through reckless use. Yet I take a lot better care of my diabolos/kendama etc. Perhaps people don't customise their clubs because they don't care about clubs as much?
Unfortunately I haven't been able to get my hands on any of these yet, but I can imagine they solve a lot of my issues with Play clubs, and a lot of other peoples issues with Renegade clubs. I am definately very excited by the fact that the collaboration exists!
https://www.renegadejuggling.com/Play-Renegade-Hybrid-Clubs-c300.html
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I wasn't aware of that! You're right, that's a very interesting collaboration. Question is, which hybrid version would you go for?
Well, if (if) then certainly Renegade dowels (I believe that a club which is built to bend on impact (eg plastic dowels) is a very bad idea), so either the Hybrid-1 or 2. Given the weight, and handle choices, I would choose the Hybrid-1.
Tom Renegade writes some very interesting stuff RE dowels and club weight in a comment on an article over at Circus Geeks (yes, article by me, but I'd rather link to the whole thing that just paste Tom's comments here):
https://circusgeeks.co.uk/2011/11/03/fidelity/#comment-264
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
note to self: read the comments on circusgeeks articles more often ;)
My usual rule (with thanks to Arron Sparks) is "ignore the bottom third of the internet": but sometimes it's worth making exceptions ;-)
"The dowel gives the club inertia, and with the inertia/mass at the center of the club it make it fly/spin better. This is why a dowel club flies (mass in the center) so much better than one-piece club, (mass in the shell/body)."
I'd like to understand this better. Is this comment based on physics or experience? I can't visualise why this would be the case or think of any physical law that would have this effect. I would have thought that mass along centre line or mass on surface of club would be equivalent - unless the club is spinning around the axis of the dowel.
I think Tom means that one-piece clubs tend to be too top heavy ("mass in the shell/body"), and that a heavy dowel helps bring the centre of rotation back towards a more optimal point.
But as Orinoco says above regarding this problem: "The third problem of poor balance is just a case of bad design, 'weights' can be incorporated into the molded pieces at the correct points".
I suppose no-one has tried very hard to do so because one-piece clubs have become traditionally cheap clubs for beginners, rather than being thought of as well made juggling props.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
The patent for the Dube Airflite club indicates that Brian thought about this and has specified varying wall thickness as an attempt to improve the weight distribution: https://www.google.com/patents?id=LVQzAAAAEBAJ
I would have thought the likes of "flare" etc probably didn't put anywhere near that amount of thought in to their single piece clubs though!
OK, I see what he meant by 'mass in the center' now. Thanks.
I would be tempted to switch to one-piece clubs if they were well balanced as I prefer simpler designs. Less to go wrong and a more pure form of what a juggling club essentially is. I prefer the stickerless Rubik's cubes for similar reasons.
I would also prefer a simpler club. My biggest problem with modern clubs is that they are all held together with sticky tape which deteriorates quickly, covers everything in glue & is generally very messy.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I don't think there's any tape in a henrys delfin. They're not my ideal club for other reasons, but they are at least proof it can be done :)
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I'm not sure. From what I remember of the flip there's tape between the handle and the body (but it's been a long time since I handled a new flip so it's possible they used to be taped but aren't any more?
The photos I'm finding on the internet aren't all that clear one way or the other. Some look like they could be tape, some look like they might not be. Has anyone got one?
Yes, I currently use Delphins (can it also be spelt delfin?) - partly for that reason. Although I do put tape around the top of the head to stop the plastic from splitting.
The worst thing about the dowel clubs is that they connect the head to the dowel using a staple into the wood. This either weakens the wood causing them to snap at that point or the staple works loose making them rattle. The first thing I do with a new set of Delphins is take them apart, remove the staple and instead wrap tape around the dowel at that point so that the head can be pushed snuggle onto it. I wish they sold DIY clubs where you just buy the parts and construct them yourself so I could avoid the staple hole in the dowel altogether. They could also be slightly cheaper. I think that the Henry's Mirage is the first club to solve the staple problem, but it's expensive.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I really wouldn't take anything I write as being a shining example of great spelling. (especially for words my spellchecker doesn't know about)
Various club manufacturers (including henrys) sell *most* of the parts you'd need to build a club from scratch (handles, knobs, end caps, dowels are all fairly easy to get) I think the notable exception tends to be the club body.
I have wondered from time to time about buying one-piece clubs and cutting the handle off then building a composite club around them. I think at least one manufacturer used to do this as a matter of course to save having to have two sets of moulds - but I can't put my finger on who it was.
How and where do you take them apart?
I have Delphins and am quite happy with them, but would like to make them last.
Hi
- Carefully remove the centre piece in the middle of the end knob with something like a screwdriver.
- Unscrew the end knob screw.
- Unscrew the handle knob screw.
- The head connected to the dowel should now pull out of the handle.
- Remove the staple that connects the head to the dowel (screwdriver again?)
- Wrap insulation tape around the dowel at the point where the bottom of the head is when the dowel is inserted. You'll need a bit of trial and error to get the right amount so that the head can be pushed onto the dowel firmly.
- Reassemble the club. The last 2 steps are to push the black plastic ring up the handle until it clicks into place and then screw the handle knob back on.
- Wrap some textile tape around the top of the head where it meets the end knob to prevent the plastic from splitting. Insulation tape isn't good enough. I use the Tessa tape sold by henry's.
The clubs should now last a very long time.
Sorry if I missed something out. It's been a while since I've done it.
Although insulation tape does help to stop the end knob from "fraying" at the edges. Better than nothing I reckon.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
"Passe Passe's modular system where you could fix a standard bulb or a fire torch to the same handle was a nice idea but hasn't exactly proved popular though"
I'd forgotten about that system. From what I remember though, the screw couplings were made of chocolate and just bent up when you dropped the prop.
Beard(?) had a similar problem in the early 90s when they tried to make a fire devilstick which unscrewed into two halves for storage. You'd get 5 or so drops out of it before it would either end up shaped like a banana or just snap. From what I remember, they scrapped the idea and used the tubing to make tent poles instead. I'm sure there's an article about it in The Catch somewhere.
I wonder if there's any of the Passe Passe modular system about anywhere.
Didn't Vipa create another modular system? I can't quite remember what any of the products. I guess that's another reason to dig through old magazines...
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I just wish I'd kept all the catalogues I hoarded at one point...
I have one of the Passe Passe Modular Juggling System (MJS) sets, I have no idea how many of them they actually built (or sold).
I am not great fan of Passe Passe, and I do question the quality/durability. I use the clubs quite regularly, but only for a specific routine which involves screwing them together, but then not actually juggling them beyond a cascade. I have though also used the clubs for "proper" juggling acts, but I really don't like them. The weight and weight distribution is very uncomfortable due to the heavy screw hardware.
But, they really do make packing a LOT easier!
They still have the complete range on their website, but (to quote from someone who recently tried to order some of the clubs) "I see what you mean about Passe Passe. Ordering from them has been a total hassle".
YMMV.
https://www.passepasse.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=mjs&x=0&y=0
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
Orin when you have finished designing your clubs and are thinking of a name, how about calling them Pins? I think it's a good name because everyone will know what they are, including non-jugglers, eliminating the ongoing correction.. "actually they're called clubs." Also 'Clubs' brings to mind bashing or bludgeoning, perhaps people would take better care of them if they were called something less Captain Caveman like.
Good idea, a club is something for those of us that like a lot of chocolate on their biscuit.
pumpkineater23 - - Vorredner #
Funny. Made me laugh out loud.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I will be singing this all day now though
https://youtu.be/8LmZCMmNPkM
I'm on here now. I'm expecting a lot of new stuff today or tomorrow. Please check out the site over the next few days. And please look at the Wish List page to see if you might have something we're looking for. Thanks.
David Cain
www.historicaljugglingprops.com
Welcome David, glad you could join us. Well done for getting together some interesting content for us to look at.
Oh, & quick correction - Jason Garfield was born in 1974 (unless of course he was a very precocious 4 year old!)
Little Paul - #
While looking for something else entirely, this video of Luke Wilson popped up in my youtube sidebar.
https://youtu.be/GL5VU8HMZuQ
I'm posting it mainly because you get some wonderful nonsense if you turn on "English (transcribed)" youtube automatic subtitles.
Little Paul - #
We haven't had a video post in a little while, so here. Have this:
https://youtu.be/MfKeAHhJzMk#!
That's a skill which is on my list of "skills I wish I had, but accept that realistically I don't have the determination required to gain"
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
also, just seen this via a comment Luke Wilson made on r.j
https://youtu.be/8s6b_L_Wae8
If you've ever played with a rolabola, you'll know which bits of this I like!
What I love (perhaps most) about rola-bola acts is the assistant's role, and the pure prop organisation involved. A good circus rola-bola act can be a lesson in efficient routining :-)
Here one of my favourites, with the father (Valentin) assisting his son Maxim:
https://youtu.be/-TFgP-GtHbc
Even better viewed from backstage, especially if it's a Gala show / last show of a run: because Valentin will probably then also be actually packing the props as he takes them away :-)
is it just me or is the nice new orange jugglingeoge logo clashing just a bit with the blue text ?
It's just you. (Well, maybe or maybe not, but I don't agree).The ST and BT unread post indicators are orange. And orange and blue are a good combination anyway.
Brook Roberts - - Vorredner #
Then change it in the settings :) I put it back to the original text.
I think blue and orange is a mighty fine colour scheme for a juggling website:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050209131127/https://www.jugglingdb.com/
:-)
Absolutely!
https://web.archive.org/web/20040615055547/https://lukaluka.com/
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_colors#Art_and_design
Complementary colours is about all I could remember from GCSE art, hence the blue / orange scheme.
Is it possible that one can only be logged in on one device at a time, and that logging in on one logs you out of another?
I expect this is probably some smart and safe security feature that I should be grateful for ;-)
Given that I regularly switch devices, this is becoming a bit irksome for me. Is there no secure way of getting around this limitation?
I did have an idea the other day that would allow you to stay logged in on multiple devices without doing anything crazy, although if you log out on one device it would log you out of... no, hold on....
Fantastic, you're a star :-)
Luke
(written on iPad whilst hitting refresh on laptop)
Thought I'd drop the #BJC2012 Public Show order from last night here, for those who missed it!
MC: Donald Grant
Phil Os (diabolo)
Ian Marchant (comedy)
Matthias Romir (Pinball Paranoia)
Gunnar Erik (handstand)
Gandini Juggling (Gloclubs)
-INTERVAL-
Tony Pezzo (rings)
Rod Laver (Ping-pong balls)
Matthias Romir (clubs and balloon)
Tigris (hula-hoop)
Françoise Rochais (batons)
Stagehand without compare: Arron Sparks
THANK YOU ALL!
Luke
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
That looks like quite a lineup - how was the show?
Cedric Lackpot - - Vorredner #
The show was pretty good. But where the feck were you?!?
Ian Marchant was doing the wrong act; Matthias Romir was really rather good but must've irritated the just-throw-the-bloody-props brigade, and it's hard to justify giving him two spots; Gandinis were like toadally ossum dude, one half-drop in the entire routine by John Motherfucking Udry, which is his new name; Francoise Rochais was lovely, hardcore, and very sexy with it; the hand balancer was a macho hoot and looked like he was really enjoying himself; Rod Laver did the usual, which would be a shoo-in for any convention show but I think I've seen it four times now.
All in all a pretty good BJC show, I've seen better, I've seen quite a few that were worse.
Little Paul - - Vorredner #
I think when it comes down to it, I'm just a bit rubbish at doing all the little organisational bits required to get me to a convention these days :/
I'm intrigued though - which routine did Ian do, and which do you think he should have done?
Cedric Lackpot - - Vorredner #
He did what mini tells me is essentially his street act, in which there was far, far too much waffling and build up and very little action. I honestly can't remember what the big trick was since it took an age to go through his cheer-in-a-bag schtick. Fine for the street but it seemed completely out of place for a BJC show, and was also at odds with the rhythm of the other acts in the half.
I've no idea what he should have done, but the other act of his which I can recall seeing, the plate spinning number, would've been a better fit I think.
He did the act which he headlined Ballring with this year. Ends with the teatray flip. Unfortunately audience involvement just encouraged people to repeat non-funny "heckles" ad infinitum.
I wouldn't have thought so, there was no official filming and people were asked not to film during the show.
Why? his is really sad.
And it remembers me that nobody answered my Big Talk post about putting entire performs online.
Why? Presumably because the artists didn't give permission (which is entirely within their rights). You would have to ask each artist for their own reasoning (there are hundreds of reasons they could have, I would only be speculating). It's perfectly normal in other performing arts for permission not to be given for recording of live performances (theatre, dance, music, etc).
Also, while the venue has a license to play music in public, we don't have any right to redistribute the music from the acts on the internet. Even if all the acts agreed to filming (which it seems they didn't), we'd have to replace all their music with differently licensed music, which would spoil the point rather.
I agree that it's a right of who's performing, and the post on big talk is exactly about that.
Take a look there if you want to.
About the music.
Not always. Now youtube signed some kind of contract with ECAD, so you can put songs on youtube without strikes on your account (it depends of the song) , and the ad revenue goes to ECAD (ok, is not a great thing but it's something)
Changing the song of the act for another one it's not an option, it'd totally suck, for sure.
I did look into having a DVD made of the whole convention including the show and also just the show. But it was too costly and not only that we'd have only been able to include 90 secs of each act. So overall it wasn't worth doing. We'd never get enough money selling the dvds to cover the costs of getting the made - especially as the draw would be the full show, which we didn't have.
Very sad but we will all have the memories of the show which for one thought was amazing :o)
A very good show. My problem is I've seen so many shows, it's hard for me to be seriously wowwed by an act or a show any more. (And yes, I realise this is a reflection on me, and not on any acts themselves).
Donald did a great job, nicely paced, some good gags (and bad-good ones too), and never stayed on too long. Plus bonus kendama appearance! But Donald, why tease us with the jitter ring and then not use it? :)
Phil got the show off to a cracking, high-energy start. Very good stuff. (Apart from the minute of glow-diabolo, which to me smacked of "making my act up to the required length for a variety contract". :-) )
Ian was just too long. Cut in half, and it would have been fine. Sorry Ian, I know you were probably doing exactly what you were asked to, but although your skills and comedy were good, there was (as others have said) way too much of the "are you ready?!" schtick.
Matthias' first act just didn't get me. I've seen it twice now, and both times the crowd seemed to love it, so I guess it's just me here.
Gunnar rocked, with added rock. First trick, "BAM! Screw you, THIS is how good I am!". Oh yes.
The Gandini gloclubs act is uberlush.
2nd half kicked of with "BJC achievement awards" (or something). Awards to Charlie Holland, Max Oddball, Charlie Dancey, Haggis McLeod and Henry's. Yep.
Tony Pezzo also rocked. Finally someone has struck exactly the right balance between toss juggling and manipulation with a ring act. Bloody good.
I've seen Rod a few times now, and he was excellent again. (This was one of the several times that I was reminded of my jaded-old-fart status by the teenage/students in the crowd around me applauding wildly/laughing like drains.)
I really liked Matthias' 2nd act. Dammit, people, he's doing all that shit with a balloon in front of his face! Cool.
Tigris was very good, but I think I prefer his "Sailor" act.
Françoise was kick-ass rock solid. I vaguely wonder if this is the first time a female has headlined a BJC? Couldn't have asked for a better one if so.
Thank you Luke & Donald.
Just to complete for posterity.
"Awards to {Charlie Holland, Max Oddball, Charlie Dancey, Haggis McLeod*} and (Henry's **)."
And:*Sean Gandini**Michael Ferguson.
{} = for contribution() = for props
Just for accuracy:
The awards were -
5 for 'Outstanding Contribution to British Juggling' which went to:
Charlie Holland, Max Oddball, Charlie Dancey, Haggis McLeod and Sean Gandini.
2 for 'Innovative Prop Design' which went to:
Michael Ferguson aka 'FERGIE' for his Fergie bags (he's the reason we now have sportco, gballz and baglady. He designed and made that style ball first. The others only started when he stopped making them because of his arthritis in his hands.
Henrys for their clubs and fantastic after sales care.
Records - Any chance to have a section here?
I really appreciate the records section at Jdb, it'd be awesome if we could have something like that here at the juggling edge.
Do you think it's possible? Something like tables and graphics and keeping track of your records by date...
It's really good to see how we're improving, and to motivate people to break records, like a healthy competition.
Someone else would like something like that here?
Even an .xls or something to do it by myself offline would be highly appreciate, anyone can help me?
We'll talk.
-Lucas
I was initially ambivalent about a records section, but it seems that it is important to a lot of people so yes I will do something similar.
Cool, I'm glad you are considering picking this one up. If you want the code, and the data, it's yours :-)
I'll have a chat with Orin, it all depends on whether he wants to create his own juggling records implementation. I know from personal experience that trying to fathom how inherited code works can be a pain in the butt.
Colin E.
I'd love to have access to the code & data (for the whole IJDb), but I would prefer to create my own implementation. I'm keeping up a policy of if I don't understand it, it's not going in.
One of my first php projects was something very similar (& something I'm still toying with integrating into the Edge).
I've never used the records database so will have a play with it after the BJC to see what it does.
In the meantime Lucas (& anyone else) - What are the most important features for you? What could be done better? What is the best thing about the system? What is the most irritating? Why do you record your achievements in the first place? Aside from the competitive community aspect what does the IJDb system give you over a spreadsheet on your pooter/a scrap of paper pinned to your fridge?
(I've got plenty of answers for these questions but it would be nice to get other people's too).
To start with I'm thinking an option to download your data for offline spreadsheeting[1] would be nice.
I read this the other day & thought I could do an autogeneration of a suitable (+tweakable) practise pyramid thingumy. I suppose that is kinda related as the top tier in the pyramid would be based on your personal best.
However, I've still got lots of work to do in other areas that I want to get out of the way first.
[1]Edge vocab watch: Spreadsheeting - noun, playing with the data & creating graphs for hours as a way of avoiding any meaningful work (practise).
Brook Roberts - - Vorredner #
This would be great if you implemented it - I think a lot of users were quite keen on the records section. In answer to your questions - maybe a separation of best runs and recent runs would be nice (so it always displays my record, but could also show my recent average or similar). I do it because I like graphs with positive gradient and am inherently competitive.
I really like it the way it is.
the graphics, the possibility to add videos and comments to each record, the way you input your records...
And it's not really about the competition, I enjoy using it to be able to really see my improvement, to try to make my lines on the graphics 'date x catches' more and more vertical!
In my opinion keeping track of my records it's more about motivation than competition, of course, it's good to see awesome records like Dietz's ones just to know that it's possible (motivation)!
One thing that could be better is really having the option of suggesting new records (new tricks, siteswaps, etc.) and not just with toss juggling (balls, rings and clubs) but with diabolos, devil sticks, and everything else.
Even Contact juggling, something like time with a ball on headstall could become interesting. (not the videos, of course, but seeing that someone else did an awesome time)
I think we had this option at Jdb in the past but now we don't have it anymore.
well, let's see! I'm pretty sure it's going to be great!
Send me an email, and I'll sort out access for you. I totally understand that you want to own the Juggling Edge codebase. I am much happier that you are doing it your own way, this makes it much more likely that you will keep up your enthusiasm and that this site will last.
The only thing I would really like to see is for the data to be ported across to your new structure, It has something of a long history now, having come from the old 'manual' bogleg records sites, through JRDb and finally the IJDb. It would be a shame to loose this. However, if you want to build it your own way, I am more than happy to help transform the data.
The IJDb records contain data for both IJDb members and non-members (i.e. historical records). It also allowed an editor to update non-member records, so that, for example, Gatto's records could be maintained. There was a manual process in place for allowing me to marry together a non-members set of records to a newly joined IJDb member, so that if Gatto joined the site, he could manage his own records. This same technique could be used for IJDb to Edge migration.
Anyhow, I'll leave you to determine how you want to run this thing. If you want any help, give me a shout. Funnily enough, I have a much greater urge to get stuck in and help out with the Edge than I do with the IJDb ;-)
Regards, Colin E.
Auto-practice-pyramid generation would be insanely great! For that to be most useful, perhaps some way to track averages of runs, rather than simply best runs could be implemented? One option could be the ability to input 12 runs, and have the records database remove the shortest and longest, and average out the remaining ten to get the "official" average, but use the rest of the data behind the scenes to help generate the pyramid.
But perhaps I have just described an app or a program rather than a records database?
I'm thinking you speedcube by your name and avg of 12 suggestion, am I right? =D.
Sorry to go off topic, just curious.
Haha do you cube a bit then?
I was into it for a little, but never got great.
My best avg 12 was only ~28 secs at the end of my cubing career =P.
Though maybe i'll pick it back up sometime.
That photo's not of me, but by me, featuring 2 Edge members. I do cube a liiiiittle. My best was about 80secs, with my own method. (Never approved of people who learned a method - it's a puzzle people, work it out! :P
Ha, thats a great picture considering that was at the last BJC I attended, and I just spent the evening sitting next to the same gentleman at the current BJC :-) I cubed a lot for a while, but only the always-slower layer-by-layer method. Hit a sub-30 once, but my average was around 40 seconds.
So yes, that's my reference for working out average runs!
mike.armstrong - - Vorredner #
:To start with I'm thinking an option to download your data for offline spreadsheeting[1] would be nice.
Slammin Andy (from New York 'til recently and now somewhere on the West Coast) has a nice spreadsheet that he uses for recording his practise that he has been known to share with interested folks. Maybe a word with him could give you a nice starting point?
:[1]Edge vocab watch: Spreadsheeting - noun, playing with the data & creating graphs for hours as a way
:of avoiding any meaningful work (practise).
This is my job and it certainly beats working for a living!
This would be awesome!
Please, let me know if you can get it!
or better, send it to luabduch16@gmail.com or post a download link here!
thanks!
Something similar to IJDB would be good. The history of records plotted on a graph feature that IJDB has is great for seeing progress. The only additional thing I would suggest is for people to vote up or down for records if they believe them or not. This is something that the original Bogleg database had.
I have some very pretty Henry's Circus clubs to sell, perhaps at the #bjc2012
How's that for a self-serving first post? But the self-promotion gets even better, because you can read the story of why they are for sale here:
https://circusgeeks.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/fidelity/
Anway:
Six (6) glittery red-metallic, barely used (one training session over mats, one backstage warm-up, one 6 minute show), Henry's Classic Circus Long (uni glitter).
Silver handles, white knobs.
Three have black ends, three have white.
Plus three each of replacement white and black ends, still packed.
Plus three black knobs with screws.
Plus one new roll (10 metres) of glittery red-metallic tape, and one roll of white finishing tape.
TOTAL NEW PRICE = 180 GBP / 220 EUR
For you, paying cash in Southend, 120 GBP / 150 EUR
If you want them, message here or e-mail me (info at lukewilson dot de), please by Tuesday night!
I hope that my future posts will be of a more interesting nature...
Best,
Luke